Real Canadians Talking Real Health Care

by April Capil on September 2, 2009 · 154 comments

in News, Patients, Video

As our health care debate has overheated, myths about the Canadian health care system abound. The Republicans and the media are using the Canadian system to criticize everything from the public option to breast cancer treatment as they continue to stonewall any reform. This video, and more like it, might finally change the debate by forcing the American media to get off their arses and go tell the truth about Healthcare around the world, and how it towers over the wretched mess we have in the United States. Too many lives are running out of time.

Why this video? Why now?

In the spirit of truth, my friend Matte Black (@Shoq on Twitter) and his brother took their video camera to Canada on vacation to interview Canadians about their health care system. When we talked about it, I asked him to try to get negative views with specifics for balance. Here is the result. It has been edited for brevity, but the negative views were not removed, because there were none. He could not find one Canadian who thought they should kill the system. These are everyday people. They have no agenda at all other than being patriotic Canadians.

Please watch it and share it with as many people as you can.

Click the button to follow Shoq: Twitter-29A

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  • catwest

    As long as we can have a war, we can't get health care. Brilliant.
    Let's wait until everything else is done and paid for before we even begin to think about protecting the health of our nation. Even more brilliant.
    Meanwhile, those CEO's make billions in bonuses by denying claims of those who have insurance. Really super Brilliant!

    I must confess. I am not allowed to swear here. So instead of swear words, I say “Brilliant”

  • twilight9449

    http://www.infowars.com/obamacare-is-a-eugenics…

    Brandon Turbeville
    Infowars
    September 4, 2009
    Before I weigh in too deeply on the current healthcare debate I would like to make it clear that I am neither a Democrat or Republican, nor do I consider myself a liberal or conservative.. The only alignment I wish to make for myself is with freedom, liberty, and a basic respect for the Constitution.
    Let me begin by saying that I am actually quite open to the idea of a single payer healthcare system here in the United States. I have heard proposals that I believe could achieve the goal of healthcare for every American without raising taxes and without the Federal or State governments being involved in the doctor -patient decision-making process. Of course, these proposals have been scrapped and ignored from the very beginning. But, as I say that I am open to the single payer system, it may surprise many that I am opposed to the current healthcare bill generating so much debate around the country. So, let me explain myself..
    First, this bill is not single payer. The mainstream media has created a false debate in this country. Liberals and democrats support this bill because they see it as single payer healthcare for all while conservatives and republicans oppose it because they see it as single payer socialized medicine. But as the American people argue over something that does not even exist, they completely miss the things that spell the opposite of healthcare for all as well as the things that are much worse than “socialized medicine.” Essentially, this bill is going to require every American to purchase a private insurance plan with their own money. If you can’t afford this private insurance, then you will be “taxed” or fined by the government (Title IV, P.167).
    Secondly, before denying healthcare to the elderly and the handicapped became a national joke, there was a flicker of debate about what the mainstream media mockingly labeled as “death panels.” I regret to inform the readers that these panels do in fact exist both within this bill as well as other legislation. Section 1233 of the healthcare bill is rife with clauses that establish government control over the health care procedures you undergo particularly at the end of life. This section asserts that a government approved list of end of life resources will be established(Section 1233, p. 425) as well as the required “end of life counseling” every five years or if his/her health takes a sudden turn for the worst (Section 1233, P.425). It goes even further to say that a government board will determine what level of treatment you will receive, if any, at the end of your life (Section 1233, P.430). Section 1162 indicates that the government will
    mandate what it calls “outcome based measures,” which is a polite way of saying rationing (Section 1162, P.335).
    The government panel that will make these decisions is actually already in existence. It was created earlier in the year tucked away safely in the stimulus bill. The stimulus legislation created a new bureaucracy called the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research which is modeled on a UK board that oversees the rationing of healthcare procedures in that country and uses a formula to determine who receives care and who doesn’t (McCaughey ). With its’ focus on “cost effectiveness” and “outcome based measures,” it is clear that the elderly, the handicapped, and the chronically ill will receive far less care than younger healthier patients as they are seen to benefit less in terms of quality of life and quantity of years. Yet it should be clear to everyone that it is not a question as to whether or not these individuals will benefit from the treatment, it is a question of whether or not they are seen as a benefit to
    the governmental establishment.
    If one is not convinced of the intended rationing of healthcare by simply reading the bill, then he/she should consider what the authors and largest supporters have said in regards to it. Former Senator Tom Daschle, also a former Obama nominee for the position of Health and Human Services Secretary, actually wrote many of these provisions (McCaughey). Daschle is quoted in his book as saying that Americans expect too much from their healthcare system and that Europeans should be commended for being more willing to accepting “hopeless diagnoses” and foregoing “experimental treatments (McCaughey). He also goes on to say that seniors should be more accepting of these hopeless diagnoses and illnesses that come with age instead of treating them (McCaughey).
    Ezekiel Emanuel, health policy adviser at the Office of Management and Budget as well as a sitting member of Federal Coordinating Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research is quoted as saying that doctors take the Hippocratic oath too seriously, “as an imperative to do everything for the patient regardless of the cost or effects on others” (JAMA June 18, 2008,). Indeed, that is generally what patients want from their doctors. In an article written for the Hastings Center Emanuel says, “services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia” (Hastings Center Report Nov.-Dec. 1996, p.13). Emanuel is clearly advocating a eugenics-based rationing system.
    The healthcare bill also contains other frightening clauses such as Subpart XII, Section 340L which establishes a “Corps” that will conduct “Home Healthcare visits” as explained in Section 1713 to assess the designated families’ “economic self-sufficiency, employment, school readiness, and educational achievement” and to coach them on how to raise their children(Section 1713,P.768). This bill does in fact contain provisions that would set the wages of doctors (Section 225 and Section 223), possibilities of a draft to a National Health Service Corps (as mention also in the stimulus bill; section 1713), creation of a National Medical Device Registry(Section 2521), and potential to mandate even the food we eat (Section 3121).
    It is important for the American people to realize that this bill is not single-payer and that it does not provide healthcare for all. It is a eugenics program that will ration healthcare for most and outright deny it for some. The mainstream media and those who control it have created a false debate among us in an attempt to divide and distract us from the real issues at hand. The American people continue to argue with one another over issues that do not even exist. While we spin around chasing our tails they attach yet one more link in the chain of tyranny and government control.
    Works Cited
    HR 3200 “Making Healthcare Affordable” PDF file
    “Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan,” Betsy McCaughey, Bloomberg News
    “The Perfect Storm of Overutilization”, Ezekiel Emanuel, Journal of American Medical Association, June 18, 2008
    “Where Civic Republicanism and Deliberative Democracy Meet,” Ezekiel Emanuel, “The Hastings Center Report Nov.-Dec. 1996.”

    ________________________________

  • http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/ Karoli

    I'm sorry, but quoting Betsy McCaughey immediately discounted anything
    you have to say in this comment as far as I'm concerned. She has no
    knowledge of what she claims, and is simply a mouthpiece for
    disinformation and absurd claims.

  • http://davidgs.posterous.com/ David

    Anyone that quotes Betsy McCaughey has long ago missed the clue train. She is a paid shill, and will say whatever anti-reform BS she is paid by whoever pays her the most to say. There's another word for what Betsy is … can't think of it just yet … Rhymes with 'more' but it's spelled with a 'W'.

  • murphyj87

    Our troops are fighting ans dying side by side with your in Afghanistan. Your media only mmetion the Americans, but our guys are dying right beside yours.

  • murphyj87

    I'm a Canadian from Nova Scotia and I totally agree with all the comments in the video. Thank you of doing this.

    I hope it helps the 36% in the US who have either no access or insufficient access to the kind of easily accessible and high quality health care which we take as a right of being a Canadian.

    I have several serious issues myself and in my family and have always been able to have access to all necessary procedures within a reasonable length of time.

    As a person who retired after 35 years with the same company at age 55 with a full and decently large pension (we can retire earlier because we don't have to worry about health insurance) and am now almost 60, it would mean that I couldn't afford healthcare in the US from age 55 to age 65, when I'd be eligible for Medicare. My hypertension would probably kill me is I couldn't have it monitored and treated for that length of time.

    I have passed the link to this video alon to several American pro-reform websites.

  • murphyj87

    So you think that insurance companies denying up to 40% of claims for profit doesn't constiute rationing?

    Insurance bureaucrats stand between physicians and patients rationing care and making treatment decisions instead of physicians.

    Transplant committees in the US ration care by being able to deny transplants for any reason, usually based on a “psycho-social” interview. What that means that they can deny a transplant based on the candidates “social value” which means their percieved value to society, and their ability to pay.

    That situation does not exist in Canada. If someone is denied a transplant, it is totally because it would be detremental to their overall health, usually that they would likely die during surgery, and this type of denial happens very rarely in Canada.

  • murphyj87

    Oh, just a clarification, because Americans, and maybe other get this wrong. Canada does not have “socialized medicine”

    The definition of socialized medicine is that government actually OWNS the hospitals and that physicians are civil servants.

    In US terms, Medicare and Medicaid are single payer but not socialized medicine (physicians are in private practice and hospitals are not government owned)

    DVA is single payer and it IS socialized medicine (physicians are civil servants and the hospitals are owned by the government).

    In Canada physicians are in private practice (except medical researchers, medical school professors, and physicians who work full time in hospitals-like ER physicians) and hospitals are non profit with non government boards (many owned by religious organizations, charities, or an independent regional health authority). So Canada does not have socialized medicine.

  • twilight9449

    Our bill is going to be extremly different then Canada's it's those parts I do not like amongst other things.

    ________________________________

  • murphyj87

    Well I doubt that the things you suggest actually mean what you say, that there's clarification later or elsewhere.

    Basically the US legislation creates a physician run health care system as opposed to the insurance run health care system you have now. You paranoid Americans would find mortal danger on a box of Corn Flakes.

  • murphyj87

    Of course our form of government is very different as well. There has to be an election at the maximum every five years, but there are conditions where an election can be forced.

    For example currently:
    Conservatives 143
    Liberals 77
    Bloc Quebequois 49
    NDP 37
    Independent 2

    Since there is a Conservative minority government, if 144 or more opposition members vote non confidence in the government, an election is forced, no matter at what point it occurs. Basically if the Conservatives propose something we don't like, we push opposition members to force an election and we vote them out. That gives us far more control over the government than the US has. With four major parties, the chance of a majority government (more government members than total of opposition) is not very great any more.

  • http://www.maiacaron.com/ theadividual

    Great video, Shoq. I'm Canadian and love the system. I lived in California for a year in 1980, and had to go to a doctor. So weird to have to pay to see what in Canada is always paid for. I think Americans are afraid of a national health care system because it smacks of socialism/communism. Um, it just makes sense.

  • Joel Brown

    As a Canadian, I will verify that everything these people are saying is the truth. I have been lucky enough to not require any great amount of care due to disease or accident, but it is very reassuring to know that should anything happen to me, I will be taken care of and not driven into bankruptcy. My brother has cerebral palsy and has required a great deal of care, from surgeries to physio to wheelchairs to classroom assistants, and my parents would probably have gone broke and not been able to help my other brother and I with our university educations.
    Thank God I'm a Canadian.
    (Although this whole debate is good for a few laughs for us.)

  • murphyj87

    Westerners tend to have a bit more of an accent, people from Alberta and Saskatchewan particularly.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Berenice-Rushovich/1095789930 Berenice Rushovich

    This is really what we need here!

  • Bopper1

    This can not be true, republicans told us so, and they wouldn't lie, WOULD THEY?????

  • twilight9449

    lol so your not american?

    ________________________________

  • twilight9449

    holly jeez if your not american then why are we having this talk? LOL The problem is our country is headed in a direction of governmental over control. We are headed to a point were there are talks about we don't know when but soon something new is going to happen…

    When Clinton was elected there was the Oklahoma bombing…. When Bush was elected there was the 9/11 attacks… mark my words… something soon will happen again to America just like every time a president comes in that's new and changing things a little more to be controled by the government.

    ________________________________

  • michael92064

    Random people all needing that much health care? How much of their taxes went to healthcare? Until recently, why did Canadian doctors want to move to the US? US needs reform, but where do they go when the system doesn't work. Canadians go to US, where do US citizens go if they emulate the Canadian system?

  • Tywick

    The corporations love to fear-monger Americans into privatized health-care. Big corporations can afford health for their employees thus giving them an edge over small business. If you make health care available for everyone then god forbid that big companies might not have that benefit over small ones anymore.

  • montrealeragain

    Wow… You know this wkend I met an American doc who thinks there is nothing wrong with the system. He says if the malpractice issues and the wastes associated with it were taken care of, there would be enough money to pay for all the uninsured in the USA. He's a cardiologist in Florida. Do you have any opinion on this?

  • montrealeragain

    Wow.. I didn't know that. I had no idea what the actual definition of socialized medicine is.

  • montrealeragain

    Nobody said our system is perfect. People are free in democratic societies to live anywhere they want to pursue any goals they want. People leave for all sorts of reasons. I spent my 20s living in Eastern Europe… Some of my friends spent that time in Japan.
    My cousin is a surgical resident and married another resident last wkend. Half of his year's McGill med class was at the wedding. None of them are leaving the country. Sure they will do fellowships or whatever they are called in the States… but I didn't speak to anyone who wanted to live and practice medicine the US.

    Guess what michael.. the entire world does NOT want to be American or live in your country. Get over it.

  • montrealeragain

    http://mediamattersaction.org/factcheck/2009061…

    important for all to read to have amunition to counter lies.

  • michael92064

    Get your ego in check…I said nothing of the like.
    Until managed care killed healthcare in the US, you would find hundreds of Canadian doctors working side offices along the border. The reason was they could make 3 to 10 times the income that way. It is still common to see Canadian doctors working the ERs in northern states on the weekends. The recent medical adviser to the California Workers Compensation system was an ex-Canadian Orthopedist. He related the Exodus of doctors to the US and other countries after the conversion to single payer in Canada prompted the the Government to seize all assets of the doctors to force them to stay or loose everything. How often does that story get out? The united States has a single payer program in the form of Medi-care. No doctor would participate without the threat of being barred from hospitals. The Doctors are paid far below the cost of delivering the service. Before Managed care, it was absorbed by those that paid more. The US does not have a perfect system, it is crumbling and needs reform. The chief reform should be in the way of regulation. The insurance companies get preferential tax treatment and are delivering less product for premium paid. They are making medical decisions and are not held accountable. The US has a southern neighbor that takes billions of heathcare services and threatens to sue if they are denied. What would happen to the Canadian system if Billions of service were given away to non-citizens?

  • montrealer

    “you would find hundreds of Canadian doctors working side offices along the border. “

    Really? Hundreds???? I bet you could count those numbers on a hand or two. Show me the numbers, cuz I've never heard of it. In fact, I bet it is not allowed cuz that would be double-dipping –against Cdn law. What you do see a lot of in quebec are doctors working across the border one day a week in ONTARIO (That's a province in Canada in case you've never seen a map.) because they get paid more there.

    “The reason was they could make 3 to 10 times the income that way. “

    uh huh.. and pay 20x more in malpractice insurance. And by the way, I know a neurologist who lives in Vermont but works mostly in Montreal. She's an American. Her husband's job is only in Vt. She wanted to stay in Canada. Likes the system better. But one person does not a trend make.

    ” He related the Exodus of doctors to the US and other countries after the conversion to single payer in Canada prompted the the Government to seize all assets of the doctors to force them to stay or loose everything.”

    Canada was fully converted to govt run single payer healthcare by 1970. Were you even born then?

    “Seize all assests and force to stay or loose everything.”

    Do you have ANY IDEA what you are talking about? Yup.. That's us. Stalinist Russia. Let me guess you get all your info from Fox and Glenn Beck? Do you have ANY IDEA what you are talking about? Funny how the loudest people with the least amount of facts are the ones talking out their ass.

    “The united States has a single payer program in the form of Medi-care. No doctor would participate without the threat of being barred from hospitals. The Doctors are paid far below the cost of delivering the service. “

    I'm not American and will not comment on this, but doesn't sound like what any of my American cousins who are doctors describe when discussing Medicare.

    ” The US has a southern neighbor that takes billions of heathcare services and threatens to sue if they are denied. “

    HUH??? And how does this play into people being denied services after paying into insurance for years and years but being told to F-Off the minute they get sick. How does this play into people being afraid to leave jobs cuz health care is tied into their jobs?

    “What would happen to the Canadian system if Billions of service were given away to non-citizens?”

    Actually, here's a story for Glen Beck. Know why we got pictures on our Medicare cards here? Because the people scamming our system were American cousins. Yes, the people who come here to scam our system are AMERICANS! US healthcare-less citizens borrowing our cards and having their babies and seeing our doctors.

    There is nothing more obnoxious then Americans spewing crap about places they have never been to or experienced. Personally I couldn't care less what you do in your country. Wallow in it. It's your life. But stop feeding crap to everyone else.

    The fact is you already spend 17% of your GDP on health care. If you spent exactly the same amount in a single payer system you guys WOULD be the King of the World.

  • michael92064

    The ex Canadian Doctor is Allan McKenzie, M.D Orthopedic Surgeon. http://www.healthline.com/doctors/orthopedic-su…
    He should be about 70 now. I am 53. Feel free to ask him about seized assets for leaving. You can also ask him about doctors working across borders.
    Something more recent http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/85323.php
    BTW I am a doctor so I know the facts I “spread”. Medicare pays $350 for a cataract removal if that gives you an idea of the fees. I am impressed that Canada turns away foreigners that abuse the system, we would have a more stable system if we did that, but we don't.
    Why are you being defensive?
    I have not said the American system is better.
    I have not said the Canadian system is worse.
    What I have said is that the whole truth is not being told.
    What I have said is the American system needs reforms.
    Hospitals are not allowed to to bill medicare if they close their ERs. Many hospitals tried as that is the biggest money loser for them.
    Most Americans are not aware of the politics in Medicare. At one time I owned a durable medical equipment company. I closed it down after witnessing unbelievable rampant fraud. Administrators ( like myself at the time) could get filthy rich while health-care personnel struggled.
    The average Canadian pays more in taxes for health-care than the average American pay for insurance premiums. It is really not fair to compare though because the average Canadian is paying for himself and those that don't pay taxes.
    Here is another tidbit. Before managed care 80% of my practice paid me well enough that 20% paid very little or nothing at all.
    Basically free care from the same doctor that rich people went to. Now my overhead is 80% of my income. How much do you think I can afford to give away? Actually more because I am semiretired and it is the right thing to do.

  • chris7799

    The Conservatives have been neutered in Canada because they are a minority government in Parliament. They don't have the power to pass any legislation which would privitize Canadian health care. Even if they did have the power to do that, they wouldn't dare knowing that would be political disaster for their party. The only thing we have seen in Canada is the more private clinics in provinces. That's not a big deal since mainly rich people go there for elective surgeries and minor procedures. I have plenty of options for clinics and doctors that I can go to.

  • murphyj87

    There are more physicians coming INTO Canada than LEAVING over the last four years, some are American physicians and most prefer the Candiaan system to the American one, where they spent more time on paperworks than they did seeing patients.

  • juliegarfield

    This is just great. Well Done! Bravo for you for doing this!!!
    Maybe we'll retire to Canada?

  • michael92064

    That is true, but what was it for the prior 20 years? There are days I spend more time on paperwork that patient care.

  • murphyj87

    I've always had easy access to a physician in the three provinces I've lived in and I'm 60 years old. When I lived in the US in the 1980's, physicians were deluged with paerwork then. I always had far easier access and far better quality care in Canada than I had in seven years in the US.

  • montrealeragain

    Am I the only one who is going to weigh in on this “seized assests?” Or is it just too ridiculous for anyone else out there to even bother. OKAY.. We CONFESS.. Yes, in the late 60s… the Stalinist State, helped by Beria seized all the land and assests of every physician in the country! Then, we sent them all to the gulags of the Yukon and the North West Territories.

    WTF?

    Every doctor then, like now is given a choice. Opt in or opt out. If you opt in you get paid by the govt. If you opt out, every patient you have has to pay you independently. There is NO double dipping. PLUS, no supplemental insurance company covers procedures. ONLY diagnostics.

    However, in the 1960s, I believe that medicare initially agreed to pay at rates determined by the provincial medical associations (i.e. the doctor's unions). Then, in the 1980s (I believe), the governments reneged on this, and began unilaterally determining doctor's rates (with some input from medical associations). At various points in my lifetime, including a year or two ago, doctors have gone on strike. In the last version of this, the key negotiated clause was that there were no ceilings on the amount of money specialists could make per year.

    But I guess this is what Frank Luntz calls “seizing assests.” Just like intelligent living wills have become “death squads.” Yes, you are right. The whole truth is not being told. That's because Americans are calling a man who wants to give everyone FREE and EQUAL health care “Hitler.”

    That's why I'm defensive. Because you yourself are bringing Fox's massaged synonyms and wanting to use them as part of an intelligent debate about what is wrong up here.

    There is plenty wrong up here that needs fixing, but I've never heard a single American talk intelligently about how they could take a great system and make it better.

    No one “seized” anyone's assests if they left in the late 60s and certainly no one “seized” any of Allan Mackenzie's assests. He left in the mid to late 80s when I was somewhere in my teens. Given the fact that he was a big black anglophone man in xenophobic, parochial, nationalist and downright racist Quebec, I'd venture to guess there were a whole slew of other reasons why he (and a couple of million other folk) left this city. But he's not going to explain Quebec politics to Americans. And, he thought highly enough of the system itself to send this city a couple of California orthpaedic residents every year. (They were easy to spot at Sports Med Clinics or when being wheeled in for knee surgery.)

    As for $350 for a cataract removal. Considering it's about 10 minutes of work. I think it's pretty darn good.

    As for Canada turning away foreigners. Yes, Quebec has taken steps to eliminate fraud in one sense, but we don't turn away anyone. In fact, in Toronto, there are very specific clinics that are set up where they mostly treat patients without proper documentation or their OHIP cards. Most of these people are really hard-working refugee types from war zones. My friend says they were the best patients she ever had, and it was the best clinic she ever worked in.

    As for the US attitude towards “illegals,” Immigrants keep both our countries going. They are giving back a whole lot more in cheap labour than they are getting in free health care. Even the libertarian anti-health care reform group whose name I've blocked at this moment admitted this in a huge paper a month or so ago.

    Next: The average Canadian pays about $5,000 in health care taxes. Apprently, that is pretty much what Americans pay for in coverage. HOWEVER, we have no premiums, we have no “co-pays” (What is that anyway? ), it is not tied to any work place or business, and you can never be denied care because of a previous illness. PLUS, no insurance company paper-pusher over rides any doctors in this country. (Like WTF?)

    I honestly don't know what the term “managed care” means, but I'm guessing it's a time before insurance companies were beholden to stock holders, and health care became a corporate for profit stock-optioned business.

    But I think your point is that this system sucks. So stand up and yell. Stop denouncing other systems until you actually look at the facts — but not the ones you hear about on Fox News.

  • montrealeragain

    I'd venture to say my physician friends spend a very small proportion of their day on paperwork.

    And that's the point.

    They chart. The secretaries go click click with the medicare cards. They sign the visa-like forms and then they ship them to the gov't. One giant envelope for everyone.

    As for 20 years ago, it was pretty good, It was during the 90s that huge cuts, older docs were given early retirement and the system was bleeding all over the place.

    We need more money. We need more doctors, and quite frankly, we need medical schools to remind students that being a doctor means you have to interact with real live human beings.

  • montrealeragain

    Hey Murphy

    FYI:

    The American Heritage College Dictionary, Third Edition (published by Houghton Mifflin Co.) defines socialized medicine as:

    “a system for providing medical and hospital care for all at a nominal cost by means of government regulation of health services and subsidies derived from taxation.”

    That sounds like us to me…. although I'm way more intrigued by your definitioin. Where did you get it from?

  • michael92064

    OK, so now we must assume Dr. MacKenzie lied about his personal property being seized and he worked in the ERs of New York on weekends ( like many Canadian Doctors) and he left Canada to go to the US to escape racism.
    I was not there, I believed the man. Doctors revolting in the system is of no concern. ( they maybe happy now but who cares about the past) If I believe the Canadian medical association the system is on the verge of collapse.
    Do I want the Canadian system? No
    Do I want the current American system? No
    As it is now, we have both. Insurance and Medicare.
    Medicare is filled with fraud that the government is only to admitting now when they want to use the savings of fraud recovery to fund other programs. People like myself have been yelling and screaming about the fraud. Honestly why would anyone pay $850 for an Aluminum Cane. The insurance system is basically self regulated. Incrementally they have reduced benefits and increased profits.
    Allowing the illegal immigrants to work cheap but get get free healthcare supports slavery. They should be documented legally and paid a fair wage. Whether they give more than they take is a discussion for another blog. I am tired of the students losing ground in learning because the classes are taught in two or more languages. Put a price on that.
    All that aside. We need healthcare reform but we currently are told to vote for a plan without clearly defined applications. And yes there are suggestions on how to make it better, I have been (currently not) on the committees that have constructed plans to improve the system. But you don't hear about that, do you. You hear only one side of this issue. The plan ( with no definition) and those that don't like it. Really, you believe their are no alternatives being suggested…not even one?
    $350 for ten minutes work? The actual procedure maybe, but that is like saying all it takes to light a house it to flip the switch. Minor things like wiring, electricity and light bulbs come into play. Out of that $350, the doctor may keep $50 or less after expenses. ( if he has volume, he may make a profit) My Plumber got $250 for less than 15 minutes of work to unblock my sewer pipe. What to you think his overhead and education was compared to the doctor?

  • murphyj87

    There aren't 78% of Americans who are adequately insured to get their needed health care, so the 78% number probably comes from Lewin Group, which is a wholly owned subsiduary of United Healthcare, and thus, biased.

  • murphyj87

    I worked for a multinational company for 35 years and had to work in the US for seven years during the 1980's.

  • murphyj87

    The definition that I gave above is the original, technical meaning. I guess the misuse of the term has been adopted to some extent in the US. After all the Americans are never wrong are they? The definition I gave is the technically correct one.

  • murphyj87

    You have to be in Canada for three months before you become eligible.

  • lawrenceofcanada

    There is one primary difference between Canadian healthcare and the US system (other than money). In the Canadian system ALL medical decisions are made in private between the patient and their medical professional. In the US system all medical decisions are made by a clerk in an insurance company.
    Americans seem to prefer medical care as directed by insurance company clerks. Go figure.
    If Obama would simply hammer home this one issue with $100,000,000 in advertising, the debate would be over. Every time one of the right-wingnuts talks trash, the Democratic machine needs to publicly excoriate the hapless boob for preferring insurance company clerks making your medical decisions.

  • murphyj87

    You can find the real definition of socialized medicine here:

    http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?art…

    says: Socialized medicine: A system of health care in which all health personnel and health facilities, including doctors and hospitals, work for the government and draw salaries from the government. Doctors in the US Veterans Administration and the Armed Services are paid this way. And the Veterans and US military hospitals are also supported this way. Examples also exist in Great Britain and Spain.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialized_medicine

    says: The original meaning was confined to systems in which the government operates health care facilities and employs health care professionals. This narrower usage would apply to the British National Health Service hospital trusts and health systems that operate in other countries as diverse as Finland, Spain, Israel, and Cuba. The United States' Veterans Health Administration, and the medical departments of the US Army, Navy, and Air Force would also fall under this narrow definition. When used in this way, the narrow definition permits a clear distinction from single payer health insurance systems, in which the government finances health care but is not involved in care delivery.

    http://rolandhulme.blogspot.com/2009/09/guess-w…

    says: In that respect, one of the few true examples of 'socialized medicine' is Britain's 'National Health Service' – in which the British government builds, owns and operates hospitals, and employs the doctors and nurses who work there.

    That's why the NHS is 'socialised medicine.' Socialist principles are deeply ingrained in every part of the structure and organisation of the NHS. It's state-run healthcare from the ground up.

    In comparison, almost all of the health care systems incorrectly accused of being 'socialized medicine' are very far from that.

    There are many (mostly non American) othere sources but these are three.

  • montrealeragain

    K, so now we must assume Dr. MacKenzie lied about his personal property being seized and he worked in the ERs of New York on weekends ( like many Canadian Doctors) and he left Canada to go to the US to escape racism.

    YES. Either he is lying, or you misunderstood what he said. NO ONE SEIZED ANY PERSONAL PROPERTY. EVER! Believe what you want. In addition to every physician I could possibly find who think I'm friggin IDIOT for even asking the question, today I nearly got tossed off my neighbour's sailboat. He's a former Deputy Minister of Health here and was so angry at these made-up allegations he had no words.

    Medicare started in Sask in 1962. By the time it went to the other provinces the doctors all saw that it worked. The Church or the community groups had no problems giving up their operating budgets and transferring their hospital assets. The groups then concentrated on funding research or capital programs that ran alongside the hospitals.

    HOSPITALS IN CANADA ARE ALL RUN AS PRIVATE NON-PROFIT CORPORATIONS.

    Even when the province would de-commision hospitals, they would not sell-off the building. Instead they ceded them to local local not-for-profit groups who continue to operate it.

    THIS IS NOT THE SOVIET UNION. People are free to come and go from this province as they please. No one takes any of my assets if I'm an engineer, or stock broker or farmer. Why would they seize assets if you are doctor.

    Did he work ER shifts in NY. SO? Who cares? He wanted to make more money. Probably in Malone. A brand new hospital opened there in the 80s. Montreal being the closest city they went out of their way to bring in Montreal doctors. “Stay close to family but get the F*&K out of Quebec” was their message.

    And, if u knew/understood anything about Quebec, you'd know that this province lost every good everybody and every major corporation between the late 70s and mid-90s. Until the mid or late 90s this city was a third-world run-down decrepid Flint Michigan.

    Racism was/is only a small part of this place. And given today's festivities in Quebec city, not much has changed.

    Here's from today's Gazette
    http://tinyurl.com/p46f5x

    No anglo who wanted a real job stayed in this province between the late 70s and mid-90s. Eventually it was rebuilt by the Swiss pharmaceutical world who were given a tax-free haven and didn't care about the politics, language issue, separation referendums and the fact that they had to speak French. They built themselves huge plants in the West Island english speaking world and hired people at highly reduced salaries. You'd be amazed at how many major drugs were developed here: Vioxx, Singualar etc..

    We also BTW specialize in tele-marketing fraud.

    The Cdn medical system is not on the verge of collapse, but the last 2 directors and the current CMA head are part of an American insurance-backed initiative to promote private health care. And by the way, even the most right-wing of all these guys were never promote an american version of health care. They know they were be tarred and feathered in a public square.

    ————–

    I wonder what the medicare fraud in the US is compared to the insurance fraud?

    And just cuz there is fraud, so dismiss the entire program? You can't get away with an $850 cane in Canada. So why can you in the US? That has nothing to do with the system. Rather than the way it is being run.

    Funny, I've never heard a Medicare recipient complain about the care they were getting.

    Ditto for any vets. My 83 year old uncle in Vermont LOVES all his Vet benefits. Gee.. that's socialized medicine isn't it?

    ———–

    Allowing the illegal immigrants to work cheap but get get free healthcare supports slavery. They should be documented legally and paid a fair wage.

    Oh please. Americans would never do that. If they had to pay real wages you guys wouldn't have such cheap stuff. and that would never fly. EVER! Everything about your system goes hand in hand. That's why it is so difficult to change anything. From your election system that means you are up for re-election basically every 2 years to the idea that regulation is bad. It's an ideology that identifies Americans to the core. Nothing is ever going to change in your country because people who call Obama Hitler for wanting to give them free health care — are celebrated!

    ———–
    Whether they give more than they take is a discussion for another blog.

    No. It's not. It's a statistical fact put out by one of your libertarian organizations that opposes health care.

    ——–

    I am tired of the students losing ground in learning because the classes are taught in two or more languages. Put a price on that.

    OMG — ONLY IN AMERICA! From the time I started school I was taught in 4 languages. I learned a 5th in university and a 6th when I left school and moved to Eastern Europe. The ONLY unilingual people in the western world are Americans and separatist Quebecois.

    The problem is the US system of education. My brother has been spending $15 000 a year for my 9-year nephew in Rochester NY. After 15 years in the US he has just moved back to Montreal. Kid is in Grade 4. It's one thing that he is behind in three of the 4 languages, he now has to learn. It's pathetic that he is behind in English and math as well.

    And they also moved back because in the next couple of years the kid is going to need open heart surgery. They would not have been able to afford it. NO MORE NEED SAID.

    —————

    And why is there no real plan for healthcare?
    Because everytime something substantial is discussed it gets re-created into “death squads” and lies about the government making the decisions about your health. (I know if I was a school teacher in Alabama I would want a high school educated pencil pusher at Blue Cross deciding if I could have my medication or not.)

    You can't have an honest conversation about policy or health care because people like Glen Beck, Bill OReilley and Rush Limbaugh make more money than you, and the American public is too stupid not to listen to them.

    That's the Matter with Kansas! (to misquote Thomas Frank's book.)

  • http://www.facebook.com/swilbert Steve Wilbert

    This is what American citizens need to hear. Canadian citizens talking about their Health Care System with no Political Bullshit.

  • Canadian in the USA

    As a Canadian who's been living in the USA the past few years.. I'd give anything to have my healthcare back. Won't be able to move home anytime soon though.. but I will NOT be retiring here!

    Everything in the video is true. I know *I* definitely took it all for granted. My first Dr visit in the USA cost me about $500 – for a checkup and a thyroid blood test! You just don't think about stuff like that in Canada. What a rude wake up call.

    Also, I've never had to wait for anything in Canada. Contrast that with the fact that it takes 3 months for an appointment to see my primary care Dr here in the USA. 3 MONTHS!!

  • Pamela Jansen

    No one asked me and while I don't want the US system I don't want Americans to think single payer is the answer. Several members of my immediate family, including me, have had to pay thousands out of pocket for surgery because we had to travel out of the country. The wait lists were years long and we were all in pain 24/7 and in some cases couldn't even walk. Right now my mother at 84 can't get shoulder surgery for 18 – 24 months even though the pain is so bad some days she would prefer to die….If you have single payer healthcare then your healthcare will be rationed – it has to be. Healthcare alone could eat up your whole national budget…be careful what you wish for and look to Europe for examples of public/private systems that work better than North American systems.

  • montrealeragain

    The thing about posts like these, is that I never believe them. Are you telling me there was no one you could pay off in whatever province you live in?
    This happens all the time in Montreal.
    Not to mention, there are private clinics all over Quebec — the backwater province of this country.

    If you have the money to take yourselves out of the country and pay exorbitant American fees, then surely you have the 4grand it takes to have your surgery here at a private Montreal clinic done by the regular doctors who moonlight.

  • staceygrewal

    I am a Canadian living in the US. First, I would like to say that I do love living here. It is a great country; the people where I live are wonderful and the opportunities for advancement are endless. I only have one complaint, the very same complaint that I share with most of my American friends; the health care system sucks!

    It makes me ill when I hear people say that in Canada we have no right when it comes to choosing a doctor. That simply is not true. In Canada you can pick up the phone and call any doctor's office and as long as they are accepting new patients -you are in! My experience here has been just the opposite. If I want a doctor here, first, I have to call my insurance provider and ask them which doctors in my area are accepting patients with my “brand” of insurance. The last time I was looking for a doctor, there was only one doctor in my area (actually in the next town over, and I live in a town with over 95,000 people) who was accepting new patients with my kind of insurance. That actually sounds a lot like what Americans seem to think the Canadian system is like, doesn't it? What happened to freedom of choice? The only ones with freedom of choice here are: the doctors who can pick and choose what kinds of insurance they want to accept and the insurance companies who arbitrarily decide how much they are willing to pay for your procedures.

    Lastly, yes, the lines to get into the emergency room are long in Canada. That's because people don't hesitate when they are in need of medical attention. Last time I ended up in the emergency room here in the US, I was in and out within 45 mins. Not because the doctor was so fast or because the service was better, but because of the fact that there were simply no patients!! Did I mention that I live in a town with over 95,000 people? But the best part about my trip to the emergency room was the bill. It cost over $1250 for my son to get a piece of tape for the cut on his upper lip. And two weeks later I got a surprise from the emergency room doctor for $100 and then another week later a bill for $250 from the hospital. So, I was out $350 for a piece of tape, not to mention the $500/month cost for insurance. Over the last 3 years my father has open heart surgery, prostate cancer surgery and knee surgery. The cost – $0, and he did NOT have to wait 6 months for the surgeries.

    Ok, Canadians pay taxes for health insurance, but a recent Harvard study showed that at the end of the day Canadians pay far less via their taxes for 99.9% health coverage while Americans pay more per month in insurance costs for partial coverage. What system is better, you really need to ask? It's really no contest!

  • ridwanzero

    By that I mean latching on to this or that latest, most innovative idea that some self styled money making guru has put out in the hope it’ll go viral and make them a lot of money off the backs of all the headless chickens who will follow them blindly down a blind alley. Its a shame but a truism nonetheless that people will follow where someone they see as an expert leads. Even if they lead them to certain disaster, which is what most of the gurus tend to do to their flocks.
    The trick is to recognize a shadow when you see it!

    http://www.onlineuniversalwork.com

  • wayne1911

    Had I moved to Canada in 1969 to dodge the draft I would be a happy Canadian with health care. Since I'm disabled I have Medicare. Thank goodness. My wife? Works full time and we can't afford health care for her. We filed bankruptcy when I was unable to work. We survived, own our home (of no value since its worth was stolen from under us) and are just waiting to lose everything again when and if the wife gets sick. Oh what a country. Can't have health care, the rich might have to pay taxes, heaven forbid.

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